In this candid episode of Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams, Kirk welcomes Jeremy Grandstaff, six months into a newly created role as executive director of the Inspiration Foundation, the nonprofit founded by Cleanlogic co-CEO Isaac Shapiro in honour of his blind mother, Bea. Kirk, who introduced the two, traces their friendship from a bench at a National Federation of the Blind conference through Jeremy’s consulting work at the American Foundation for the Blind. Jeremy tells his own story: a county assessor who advised institutionalising him at age two and the father who gave the man two minutes to leave the property; school for the blind through fifth grade; a 12-year-old cold-calling publishers for accessible books in 1988; Bowling Green State University, IBM, and a master’s in organization development. He is frank about two employers who told him he would never be as competent as a sighted person, and that he could always “just go on disability”, the moment that made him say yes to this job.
The conversation then turns practical. Jeremy lays out the Foundation’s two-sided strategy, grants that strengthen the pipeline of candidates, and the emerging Inspiration Seal that builds a pipeline of employers ready to hire and promote them, alongside a goal of raising the disability employment rate by 10% in five years. Kirk raises the contested ground of disability simulation, recalling the “hand grenade” a proposed dining-in-the-dark event threw into an AFB staff meeting and the research that resolved it, and Jeremy explains how the Foundation has rebuilt the format as a Dining in the Dark and Executive Roundtable with education on both sides of the meal. They close on executive presence, Jeremy insisting on walking to the podium with his cane rather than being escorted, because the walk is the argument.
TRANSCRIPT:
Podcast Commentator: Welcome to Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams, where we bring you powerful conversations with leading voices in disability rights, employment, and inclusion. Our guests share their expertise, experiences, and strategies to inspire action and create a more inclusive world. If you’re passionate about social justice or want to make a difference, you’re in the right place. Let’s dive in with your host, Dr. Kirk Adams.
Dr. Kirk Adams: And welcome, everybody, to another episode of the cleverly titled Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams. I am Dr. Kirk Adams, talking to you from my home office in sunny, breezy Seattle, Washington, on a beautiful summer’s day. And today my guest is a dear — I’ll say a dear friend, and becoming a long-time colleague. Jeremy Grandstaff. Hi, Jeremy.
Jeremy Grandstaff: Well, hi, Kirk. That was a beautiful introduction. I hope that you’re having better weather in Seattle than the melting pot that is D.C., where I live, with humidity. But thank you so much for having me on. It’s really good to be with you. And I absolutely would consider you a long-time friend and colleague as well. So I’m honored by that.
Dr. Kirk Adams: Wonderful. Well, Jeremy stepped into a new and exciting role about six months ago. He is executive director of the Inspiration Foundation. And Jeremy, when we did most of our work together, it was in that sticky melting pot of Arlington, Virginia. And it is August, and I do not miss living there one single bit. I bet it’s 76, no humidity, and a breeze here in Seattle today. So in any case, I met Jeremy at a National Federation of the Blind conference when I was fairly new in my role as president and CEO of the American Foundation for the Blind — my great honor to have an opportunity to lead that fine organization, Helen Keller’s organization. And Jeremy and I sat on a bench together, and he talked to me about the consulting work he did, the organizational development work that he greatly enjoyed. Asked me to consider bringing him on as a resource should I need [unclear 00:02:32] strategic planning, executive coaching help. And I did engage Jeremy, and we accomplished some wonderful things together. And fast-forwarding, four years ago I left the American Foundation for the Blind. Jeremy and I have kept in good cadence of contact. And I had the opportunity to introduce him to a gentleman named Isaac Shapiro. Isaac is a partner in a company called Cleanlogic, which Jeremy can tell us more about. But Isaac’s an excited dude. His mom is blind. He grew up with a blind mother, and he is an entrepreneurial cat. He started a company importing body care products with a distribution center near Philadelphia. And last I knew, he employed over 30 blind individuals in that warehouse and distribution setting. He’s onshoring his manufacturing from China, has a goal of hiring 90 more people with disabilities. So he is one of those people who is out there doing things and not just talking about supercharging your bottom line through disability inclusion, but actually doing it — hiring people with disabilities and changing lives. And in honor and inspiration from his mother, he created the Inspiration Foundation. And I’ve been involved for several years with the foundation, in that they give grants to nonprofits in the blindness field who traditionally have been members of an organization called VisionServe Alliance. But in any case, they’re nonprofits serving people who are blind. And Isaac and I share a passion for creating employment opportunities for people who are blind. So his grantmaking has focused around supporting the use of technology by these nonprofits in supporting their employment-driven programs. So we have lots of intersections in life. Isaac came to see me maybe in the first month or two when I was at the American Foundation for the Blind, came to the New York offices. He’d had a history with AFB previously, introduced himself, gave me some of his products with Braille labeling, which of course warmed my heart toward Isaac. Anyone who hands me a consumer product with Braille on it gets a star in their chart with me. And then we’ve also kept in touch, as I said. I’ve been a little bit involved in supporting the foundation by being on the grant review committee. And then when I see where two and two can make five or more, I love to make those connections. So when Isaac was seeking an executive director, I was pleased to suggest that he talk to Jeremy Grandstaff and consider him for that role. And so here we are. I’m pretty much done talking now. I would like, Jeremy, if you could talk to us a little bit about your lived experience with blindness, why this work is so meaningful to you, where the organization was at when you stepped into your leadership role. And it’s a newly created role, too, so you have a wonderful lifetime opportunity to shape your own role, which is cool. And where — as our mutual dear friend Sean Callagy would say, from UNBLINDED — he would say: where have you been? Where are you now? Where are you going? What’s working for you? What are your challenges? So there you have it.
Jeremy Grandstaff: Well, what a tee-up. First of all, thank you for that, Kirk. As I said before, it’s really an honor to be with you. I have admired your work. Actually, you didn’t know this, but back when you worked for the Lighthouses, I was kind of following you there. And then you went into AFB, and I thought, here’s my chance, right, to build a relationship with you. So it’s been really exciting. I think we’ve known each other for maybe seven or eight years now. So, yeah, very good to know you. I’ll start with me, right, and kind of talking about some of my lived experience. I grew up in a little town called Marengo, Ohio. I was the first of four kids. Three of us cannot see; the other, my sister, can. And when I was first born — I think I was like two years old — my parents were told they needed someone from the county to come out and assess me. And so that person came out, Kirk, at the age of two, and told my parents that I would probably be best served by being put into an institution. And I’m so fortunate that my father — God rest his soul, he just died four months ago — the way the story was told to me, he basically gave them two minutes to get off his property and never come back. Right? You gotta kind of love that. And so there was this attitude that my parents had that was: nothing is off limits. You’re going to have to figure out how to do it. No is never an answer that is acceptable, and we’ll give you feedback, but you’re going to have to solve your own problems. And what I find fascinating about that is that’s exactly what we want to see from our workforce, right? Is that they are problem solving and that they are bringing ingenuity and creative problem solving into any teams that we develop. And so I didn’t know that at the time, right, that I was being taught those skills. I remember getting very frustrated one time and slamming down a pitchfork because I didn’t — you know, like my dad telling me, figure it out. And I distinctly remember him saying, well, you can keep slamming that pitchfork down and make me have to buy another one, or you can figure out how to solve the problem. Right? And so I was the first to come back to my school. At the time they called it mainstreaming; I think they call it integrated schooling now.
Dr. Kirk Adams: So did you go to school for blind children or not?
Jeremy Grandstaff: So I went to the school for the blind until I was in fifth grade.
Dr. Kirk Adams: Fifth. Okay.
Jeremy Grandstaff: Yep. I even had a teacher — never forget you, Mrs. Murphy — who said I’d never make it in a public school. Sent her a graduation card, by the way, when I graduated. But I came back up to public school, and I remember being in sixth grade and coming home from school on the bus and calling up the publishing companies because I didn’t have books. And I’m like this 12-year-old kid arguing for what I need, in 1988, to be able to read a book. Right? And back then we had very little options in what that could be. It was Braille or tape. So, fast forward, I graduated high school. I went to Bowling Green State University and got a bachelor’s degree in information systems and international business. And I started working for IBM, managing—
Dr. Kirk Adams: So, information — what was— kind of give us the layman’s view of what information systems meant. I guess that was when—
Jeremy Grandstaff: Think about it as the people who go into an organization and do analysis of all of their information systems, and then tell them what they need to do to fix all their problems. Ironic.
Dr. Kirk Adams: This is a computer. Computers. Yep. Yeah. Okay.
Jeremy Grandstaff: And the irony in that, by the way, is most of the time back then that information gathering, it was very much a ‘this is what we believe you need to do’ type of thing. There was really no bringing the client with you in those conversations. Right? We’re talking—
Dr. Kirk Adams: What—
Jeremy Grandstaff: Doctor.
Dr. Kirk Adams: What’s the prescription?
Jeremy Grandstaff: That’s right.
Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay.
Jeremy Grandstaff: And so I started working for IBM, got a job as a call center employee, and then ended up managing a team of 55 when I was 26 years old. And I have to tell you, Kirk, that was intimidating. I was the only blind person in the entire facility. Right? But what it did is it gave me the opportunity to really practice what was going to take a team to the next level. So IBM actually lost the account that I worked on, and like 6,000 other people, I got laid off. And at the time I was getting my master’s in organization development, and I fell in love with this concept that is very much applicable to what we say in the disability community: nothing for us without us. And that’s the basic concept of organization development. How do you design, plan, collaborate in a way that brings everybody into the equation that has the lived experience that you need, or that you’re serving? And so I fell in love with it. I started my company. That takes me up to you.
Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah.
Jeremy Grandstaff: And how I met you. And I’ve done some work for small businesses since then. And when Isaac and you— well, I distinctly remember when you came to me and said, you should think about applying for this.
Dr. Kirk Adams: I— yeah.
Jeremy Grandstaff: I remember taking this step back in my life and saying, do I actually want to work in disability employment? Is that where I want to be? And I think what made me say that, Kirk, is that there are times, I think, as blind people where we feel we have to work in the blindness field, that there’s not another option for us. And I wanted to make sure that if I made this commitment, I was all in. I actually think you and I had a conversation around this. Right? That this is not going to be something where I can just do it and kind of, oh yeah, this is kind of what I do. It’s all in or not.
Dr. Kirk Adams: Well, I remember you asking me, why aren’t you applying for it? I said, because I don’t want to do all that hard work that it’s going to take to build an organization and create a new role and build a new board — and a high-performing board — and put in processes. I’ve done that a couple of times. And I’m glad there are enthusiastic, impassioned, driven, talented people such as yourself to do that work.
Jeremy Grandstaff: That’s such a compliment coming from you, Kirk. And I’ll tell you what made me say yes. It’s fascinating to me that this is where it was. In the past seven years that I stopped working for myself, I have been told by one employer that after three years and them getting to know me, I would never, ever be as competent as a person that could see.
Dr. Kirk Adams: Wow.
Jeremy Grandstaff: And they said it on video, and they said it in a way that was completely, like, illegal, if you want to get technical. Right? But I chose to just get another job and move on. And then the next employer that I had, at one point, as we were separating, said, I want you to understand that you are not the top person that I feel I need to pay, because you can always just go on disability. Wow. And I thought, I don’t ever, ever want people to have to hear those things. Never in a million years. And I was really just so passionate about this idea that if we’re going to change the world, we need to look at what’s happened over the last 30 years when it comes to disability employment, and we need to recognize where we have progressed and where we can do better. And I thought, what better opportunity to just sink my teeth in and see how I can play a role in that and what that looks like. So that’s how I got here, and that’s why I said yes. Ironically, by the way, I was in the job for two weeks, and Isaac and I were talking, and we were getting ready for what is our biggest signature event in February of this past year. I had literally been in the job for two weeks, and he said, do you need help writing your speech? And I hadn’t really thought about it. Right? This idea that— and he goes, well, as the executive director, we should probably have you set a vision for where we’re heading. And I was like, oh, that’s a good point. Yeah, I really should do that. One of my best speeches I’ve ever given in my life. And I have to tell you — being vulnerable in this particular setting — it was the first speech that I’ve ever given that I wrote out completely. Wrote it out. And I don’t usually have to do that. Right? But this was a, I need to wow them, and it needs to be good. The way it was explained to me is I made some people cry, some people smile, some people laugh, and others just got their checkbooks out. And that’s okay too.
Dr. Kirk Adams: That’s absolutely right.
Jeremy Grandstaff: So what do we do? I think you wanted me to talk about—
Dr. Kirk Adams: Well, yeah. And let’s just clarify. So you have not been in an executive director or [unclear 00:17:16] role of a nonprofit before. So this is your first venture. You’ve worked with nonprofits, you’ve consulted with them, but this is your first top-paid staff position with the nonprofit.
Jeremy Grandstaff: So the way I’ll answer that is, most of the time I was the one advising the top paid person. Right? And in order to do that, I was schooled by a lot of EDs very early in my career who did it well. But until this position, I was always the second in charge.
Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. Okay. I just wanted— I was pretty sure that was true. But somewhere in this mix of what you’re telling me, I’d love to hear your impressions after six months as a first-time ED — things you’ve come to realize or appreciate or understand in your new role. So that would be fascinating to me.
Jeremy Grandstaff: Do you know how many people I’ve asked that question to? It’s so interesting. Like, I think that’s actually part of the answer of the question. Right? I spent 25 years of my career telling people like me what to do and how they could do it and how they could tell [unclear 00:18:32] better. And so far, I am proud to say I was about 85 to 90% right. Good. And I think part of it is just learning and being in the moment. Right? So, so let’s, let’s—
Dr. Kirk Adams: Set a baseline. Why don’t we tell folks what the Inspiration Foundation is?
Jeremy Grandstaff: Yeah. And then we’ll come back to that.
Dr. Kirk Adams: A little bit of the history. Like I said, what’s the narrative arc of the foundation — past, present, future?
Jeremy Grandstaff: So, excellent. So the foundation has actually been around for 20 years. As you said, Isaac and Mike, who are co-CEOs of Cleanlogic, started the company about 20 years ago — or started the foundation about 20 years ago. It was started because of Bea Shapiro, who was Isaac’s mom — or who is Isaac’s mom, and actually serves on our board today. And I think when the whole thing came up, I’m pretty sure it was around: how can we get more technology into training centers that’s going to help them be able to train people to be more qualified candidates? And so that’s where our basis started. So when I came on board, my charge was to build a strong and diverse organization, build the board, make sure we’ve got a board that can help us expand, and then to launch what we’re calling our Inspiration Seal membership program — membership and education program. As far as looking at how can we not just target building a stronger pipeline of candidates, but also building a stronger pipeline of companies who are ready to hire and promote candidates with disabilities, or people with disabilities. In my first year — or in my first six months — we expanded our grants program by $12,000 that we were giving this year. And keep in mind, by the way, that program had already started for this year before I started. Right? So we were able to secure a little bit of extra funding to end up giving ten grants to various training organizations. And those are all up on our website, https://inspirationfoundation.org. We have launched our steering committee for the Seal education and membership program. We’re doing a really good job, Kirk, of framing that program with help from people with disabilities and corporate at the same time, kind of coming together and saying, what do we need on both sides of the equation, and what does that look like? And I’m also proud to tell you, sir, that we have revised the way that we’re doing Dining in the Dark events. So we now are doing what’s called the Dining in the Dark and Executive Roundtable — basically where it’s education before we do the experiential dinner. I like to say, Jeremy style, with some process-oriented, you know, questions and debriefing during the dinner. And then we come back the next day and we work directly with executives on how can they actually start implementing what they’ve learned on day one. Right? And let’s—
Dr. Kirk Adams: Let’s pause and dig into two things a little deeper.
Jeremy Grandstaff: Yes, please.
Dr. Kirk Adams: And I know I’ve talked with Isaac about the Seal, and my understanding is Isaac wants a way to drive others to do what he has been doing and is doing. And that is to understand that people with disabilities can be an integrally valuable part of a workforce, and to encourage and equip other employers to emulate what Cleanlogic has done and hire significant numbers of people with disabilities. So I know it’s evolving, but if you could talk a little bit more about the concept of the Inspiration Foundation Seal.
Jeremy Grandstaff: Absolutely. 100%. And I do want to say, talk to me in a month, and this may actually change a little bit. And that’s driven by the team, right?
Dr. Kirk Adams: I understand.
Jeremy Grandstaff: It’s—
Dr. Kirk Adams: Being created.
Jeremy Grandstaff: Yeah. So, the concept of the Seal — kind of think about the women-owned business seal, or, I always forget their name, but they’re very big on social impact businesses: the B Corp seal. And so the concept is Isaac wanted to look at developing a seal that would be able to be placed on your packaging when you’re a manufacturer. And so you can say, by looking at the seal, we are promoting and hiring people with disabilities.
Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay.
Jeremy Grandstaff: Right. That’s the concept. Now, what we’re realizing as we’re designing this is we want the seal to have value, and we want it to be like — it’s not so much about the seal being on a package. It’s the concepts that are behind the seal and being able to help other organizations be able to achieve those. So a lot of this is going to be resource oriented, education driven, different workshops and so forth. And I think what’s interesting about this is there are other organizations that are doing some of this very well. Right? And so our focus is really on retail and supply chain type companies that are small to medium sized, and then your bigger box retail organizations, which we have lots of good relationships in. And in our meetings that we’ve had with National Organization on Disability and Disability:IN, we’re really doing a good job of, like, not duplicating, but figuring out how to collaborate with. I see this as there are enough businesses who could use this help that we all need to start operating in a collaborative fashion. Right?
Dr. Kirk Adams: And we know research shows that consumers, given a choice, if they can purchase products and services from companies that do social good in the world, they would rather do that than not. So that’s fabulous.
Jeremy Grandstaff: And I do, by the way — I just want to clarify, you know, more for when Isaac listens to this — the seal will definitely be there on packaging, but we want to make sure that it’s not just being given out like, oh, here you go, just say, oh good, you’re going to put that on. We really want to make sure companies are doing this.
Dr. Kirk Adams: And it’s not just a participation ribbon. Actually—
Jeremy Grandstaff: No.
Dr. Kirk Adams: —meet some criteria.
Jeremy Grandstaff: That’s right. There are criteria that we’re developing. And actually, I will say our design team has done a really good job of even bringing other models that we can, you know, build off of and really put some strong criteria together. So we’re starting to pilot that a little bit, and we should have more on that probably late this year or early next year.
Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay. Now let’s talk about dining in the dark. So I was at the American Foundation for the Blind, had been there, I don’t know, quite a bit less than a year, and a community group that doesn’t need to be named contacted us and said, we want to raise money for the American Foundation for the Blind, and we want to put on a dining in the dark event. We want you to publicize it. And it was like a hand grenade was thrown in the middle of the conference table during our executive staff meeting. There were strong reactions about dining in the dark. And of course, well, we had — I’ll just say a sighted woman who was in charge of fundraising said, these people want to raise us money, yea verily, let’s support them. And, you know, a blind person who is in the advocacy role said, the terrible, destructive, counterproductive — makes people scared of blindness, makes people think blind people are pathetic and helpless. You can’t touch it. We’re against it. So, being a research organization, we said, well, let’s research this. So we actually found a dissertation written by Dr. Arielle Silverman, who is now the head of research at AFB. When she was a student at the University of Washington, she did her dissertation on disability simulation experiences. So, spend a day in a wheelchair, spend a day on crutches, spend the day with earplugs in, spend the day with a blindfold. Eat a spaghetti dinner with green salad and dressing with a blindfold on, even though you’re fully sighted. You’ve never done that before. And, you know, not surprisingly, the results were: if you throw a person without an impairment, and impose an impairment on them, and throw them into a situation that they’re not prepared for or trained for, it will have negative consequences. They will think there’s nothing that could be worse than being blind. There’s nothing that could be worse than using a wheelchair. It’s scary. It’s disorienting. I can’t function. How can blind people — aren’t able to do common everyday tasks? Because I wasn’t able to when I was under blindfold. And then the research shows if it is part of a balanced breakfast, if you are educating people, giving them context, talking to them about tools, techniques, training, using it as part of a curriculum of teaching, then it can be a value add. So I know you were hinting at that direction. I know Inspiration Foundation has conducted some very well attended, financially very successful dining in the dark events in conjunction with some of the largest companies in the country. And I know that you are very, very attuned to the dangers and promise of disability simulation events. So, would love to hear you talk a little bit more about that, how you’ve brought that sensibility into the space and what your experience has been so far.
Jeremy Grandstaff: Well, I appreciate you asking that question. It’s so nicely— and by the way, I love Dr. Silverman’s stuff. So ironically, I actually read that before I took the job. I went and read her dissertation because I knew that that was our big signature event. I was actually kind of nervous — if I’m a little bit more vulnerable than I’m supposed to be, so you can always cut these out, Kirk — but I was worried before I even went to the event that this is what we were creating. Right? And I wanted to make sure that if we did it, we did it in a respectful and educational way. Right. So one of the things that we’ve actually done is we have a team of people coming together to plan. You know, I love my planning teams, right? So we’ve got a team of people that are coming together that are planning our 2027 Dining in the Dark and Executive Roundtable event. And what I found fascinating is even the people that didn’t have disabilities were so committed to making sure that we are putting some type of an educational type of piece around it. Now, I like to jokingly say, we’re going to OD the dinner — which is typical of Jeremy to do in any situation anyway, Kirk. But some things that I’m actually thinking about is, like, before they even — you know, so obviously there’s an education component before the dinner, and one the next day after. Right. And that’s how we’re kind of sandwiching it with education. But I think some of the other things that I’m really intrigued to do is, before they even put the blindfolds on, have a brief conversation at your table on what scares you about this experience, or what are you not sure you’re going to be able to do. And then do the experience, and actually talk about, what was one thing that you could do that you didn’t think you were going to be able to do? Like, what was one moment where you said, you know what, this got easier as I did X, Y, Z? And really give them an opportunity to talk about it. And I think the other key piece, especially during the dinner, right — because there’s a whole educational before and after type of thing, the before and after the next day — but it’s me actually being able to talk about, here are the tools that I used as we were going through this experience tonight that you may not have known you even had. And this is why training is so critical for people who lose their vision, or who have other ability challenges, whether they’re a parent or not a parent, and being able to really take it back to training, going for independence, and making sure that people have that. So that’s just some things that we’re toying around right now in our team meetings. But one of the things that is really important to me is to really be very cautious on how we talk about this. And so anytime we say dining in the dark, it’s ‘and executive roundtable.’ Right? Because it’s got to have that educational component. One of the other things that we’re actually exploring too — I was just working on this today — is, so this is our big signature event, but how do we bring this to your company in a way that’s going to create those educational opportunities? Right? You have many companies who will do, you know, an annual employee dinner. Is this an opportunity to make that a different experience? Right? And what that looks like? So we’re still exploring it. And I love us, like, as we grow as an organization — one of the things that we’re looking at is there’s been such a focus for our organization in blind and low vision. But I also, like, we’re talking about an overall goal of increasing the employment rate of people with disabilities by 10% in five years. That’s our main goal, by the way, Kirk. Very aggressive. It’s an aggressive goal, but it is about getting more people hired. It’s also about looking at, how do we help the other bigger communities — neurodiverse communities, for example, or hard of hearing? What can we learn from, you know, the blind community, the neurodivergent community, the hard of hearing, that is going to work across all three? And then what’s unique? Right? So what I love about my job is my job is to bring the right people together and make sure that they have the resources that they need to be able to build those double pipelines, like I talked about in the beginning. Right?
Dr. Kirk Adams: So my understanding is the Inspiration Foundation is addressing both the supply side and the demand side. So you’re supporting, through grants, the nonprofits that are out in the community training and supporting people with disabilities as they move toward employment — supporting those programs — and at the same time creating the demand pull by working with companies to encourage them, but also provide them with the tools they need to hire more people with disabilities. The seal is a visible manifestation of those companies’ readiness and commitment to hiring people with disabilities. They’re meeting certain criteria to earn the seal. And you are there to make all of this happen. So in our last few minutes, this is where I’m really interested. Now that you’re on the other side of the table, Mr. Consultant, and you have that responsibility — what are some insights? What are some things that you’ve realized, or have been affirmed for you, that, oh gosh, I was always right about this one, or this is something I might have missed? Just any insights you might have in the last couple of minutes would be great.
Jeremy Grandstaff: I appreciate this question so much, because there were two things that I remember distinctly having a conversation about, and it was actually with my sister and my little brother, who you know, Corey, who is the vice principal at the school for the blind in Washington. And my sister is actually — she’s a senior HR member for American College of Cardiology. And I remember when, before I even took the job, the two of them — we were all down at my mom and dad’s because my dad was sick at the time — and the two of them took me in a room and sat down, and they said, we need you to understand that the minute that you say yes, you are no longer Jeremy Grandstaff. You’re Jeremy Grandstaff who’s the executive director of a foundation, and everything you say is going to be from that lens. Every time you open your mouth, you’re going to be talking as the ED of an organization. No matter how much you’re on your little Facebook over there posting, you are setting a tone. And I was so glad that they did that, because it wasn’t something I hadn’t thought about, but it was really neat to have it put so bluntly to me that this was going to be a change in how I had to show up on a daily basis. I always have to be even keeled. I have to balance: when do I fight the battle versus when do I actually bring people together to address the challenge? Right? And so having that lens as I started the job was so critical. And it really made me also say, okay, I’ve been doing this for 25 years, I was trained by some great people, but what do I not know? Right? And so ironically, I went and reread your dissertation. You didn’t know that.
Dr. Kirk Adams: Well, thank you.
Jeremy Grandstaff: Went and reread yours. I read Dr. Silverman’s. I also read Joan Garry’s—
Dr. Kirk Adams: Oh, yeah.
Jeremy Grandstaff: —something on concept of a nonprofit, right.
Dr. Kirk Adams: She has, like, Nonprofits Are Messy, I think, is hers. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Grandstaff: And there was such a great— like, most of it was refresher for me, right. But one of the things that she put really well is the board-ED relationship, and what does that look like. And for me, I’m stepping into an organization that’s been around for 20 years. Right. And so my job is to grow it and expand it, which means — and this is the other thing that I really learned, and I’ve gotten a lot better at doing — is to say, let’s slow down for a second. Right. Not that I didn’t think things through holistically. Like, that’s always been my mantra, right? I’m very much about how can we look at all sides of an issue. Right. So I didn’t have that challenge. But what I did have to learn is to say, I know you want to do this right now, but let’s slow down for a minute and talk it through first. Let’s try to understand it. Let’s make sure that what we’re doing is going to be perceived in the way we want it to. And the best example I can think of this, Kirk, that is so real — and I’m kind of curious to see how this resonates with you. When I gave that first speech, there were 192 people from several different companies, all top executives. And I remember showing up to give that speech two hours early. And, you know, they’re doing the final setup and all that stuff. And Isaac is watching me, and he comes up and he’s like, why are you doing what you’re doing? What I was doing is, I was walking, because I don’t have Ozzy anymore. He retired. Right?
Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay.
Jeremy Grandstaff: I was walking with my cane from my table to the podium and then back to my table.
Dr. Kirk Adams: I always do that. Yep.
Jeremy Grandstaff: Right. And he goes, I don’t understand. He’s like, I can just take you up there. And I was like, I totally appreciate where you’re coming from. But this is my first speech to this group of people, and I need them — and he was introducing me as well from the podium, right — so I’m like, I need them to see me walk up those steps.
Dr. Kirk Adams: That’s right.
Jeremy Grandstaff: Take the mic from you, escort you down off the steps, and then come back up. And he’s like, why? And I’m— because I’m about to tell them that hiring someone with a disability is going to improve their bottom line. And if they see you walking me up there, then that undermines that concept. And I think that’s the biggest thing. You know, I don’t think I fully understood that public perception role that I have as an ED. And I gotta tell you, Kirk, if I had known that 20 years ago and acted like that as a CEO, I think that that would have opened more doors for me.
Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. It’s executive presence, right? Yeah, executive presence. So, very interesting. One thing I’ve started doing as I’ve started doing more public speaking is, when I am at the podium and I’m about to speak, I’m collapsing my cane. I say, you know, I’m Dr. Kirk Adams. To meet my accessibility needs today, I use an app on my iPhone with the built-in screen reader VoiceOver to schedule a rideshare, and then I use my long white cane and my orientation and mobility skills to get up to the room and to get to the podium. And I am going to be using some notes on a Braille tablet with a refreshable Braille display. I just say that, and it’s really to just start — and these are mostly in corporate settings — just start normalizing that people with impairments, in order to fit with the environment and be effective, we use tools and we use training, we use techniques. I just want to start normalizing these conversations in those rooms. So that’s one thing I’ll gift to you if you want to adopt that.
Jeremy Grandstaff: Oh, I totally am going to borrow that. Absolutely. 100%. And I think that also naturally feeds into then the next part of that speech for me, especially at our Dining in the Dark and Executive Roundtable, right, where it’s: now let me tell you what training we are funding, and why that’s important, and why you want to be, you know, making sure your employees are tapping into that as well. Right?
Dr. Kirk Adams: That’s right. So time has flown by, as it always does when you and I get on a call together. So how can people get involved? What would you like the listeners of this fine podcast to do in order to support your good work?
Jeremy Grandstaff: Well, I appreciate that. First of all, if you are affiliated with, supporting, taking lessons from, being trained by, or just a member of an organization that’s doing training — especially on assistive technology and employment outcomes — our grants program is a good place for you to plug into. And so that’s on our website as well. If you are a corporate executive, or you are the owner of a small to medium sized business, checking out some of the stuff that we’re doing with the Inspiration Seal, or having a conversation with me about what you need to increase the hiring and promoting of people with disabilities — that’s a conversation I’d love to have. And of course, Kirk, for anybody who needs to make that big charitable donation, we will absolutely help you do that as well.
Dr. Kirk Adams: That’s right.
Jeremy Grandstaff: And I think, you know, I also see our Dining in the Dark and Executive Roundtables as very much about, you know, corporate coming together and really sponsoring and getting educated on how we can be doing this better. So I encourage everyone, you know, check— you can find me on LinkedIn. I’m the Jeremy Grandstaff out of DC. Or you can go to our website, https://inspirationfoundation.org. And everything has literally been updated in the last week, Kirk, so I’m pretty proud of that.
Dr. Kirk Adams: I’ll go take a gander.
Jeremy Grandstaff: I appreciate that very much.
Dr. Kirk Adams: So, as an executive director of a nonprofit, now you have to be at your desk with your phone on and email open until close of business on December 31st, so you can get that mythical last-minute tax-deductible donation that someone desperately needs to make.
Jeremy Grandstaff: That’s right.
Dr. Kirk Adams: I do want to say, why are you still here [on the] 31st? Someone may be calling. They need to make that big gift. In any case, reach out to Jeremy — https://inspirationfoundation.org. And as for me, you can reach me on my website, which is ‘D-R’ for ‘doctor’ — https://drkirkadams.com. Sign up for my monthly newsletter, and there’s a link to my newly released business book, The Disability Dividend: Supercharge Your Bottom Line Through Disability Inclusion. So why don’t you buy a copy for yourself and one of your business associates, and sign up for the newsletter. Reach out to me, reach out to Jeremy, if you want to talk large, small, medium, immediate, future — anything to do with creating opportunities for people with disabilities to thrive in employment. Get in touch with either or both of us, please. And talk to you next time.
Jeremy Grandstaff: Before you end — I don’t know if you know this or not, but I actually just co-authored a book that was released a couple weeks ago called The Employee Experience Casebook: 55 Cases to Foster Employee Experience Discussions. And a lot of these cases are talking about judgments made by people about people with disabilities, and really helping to do those. So I completely forgot that until you just said your book.
Dr. Kirk Adams: Again— say the title again.
Jeremy Grandstaff: It’s called The Employee Experience Casebook, and it’s on Amazon. I’ll make sure that you have the link. And I look forward to reading your book as well, because that is totally relevant to what I’m doing, and I’m sure makes the business case for what—
Dr. Kirk Adams: Oh, absolutely. And I think Isaac Shapiro was called out in that book. So you might tell Isaac to rush out and buy a copy and look for his name.
Jeremy Grandstaff: I will absolutely do that. And I look forward to continuing to partner with you and collaborate with you. It’s just such an honor. Thank you.
Dr. Kirk Adams: Absolutely. We’ll talk again very soon. I will take a look at the revamped website. And everyone who’s listening, we’ll catch you next time on another episode of Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams.
Podcast Commentator: Thank you for listening to Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams. We hope you enjoyed today’s conversation. Don’t forget to subscribe, share, or leave a review at https://www.drkirkadams.com. Together, we can amplify these voices and create positive change. Until next time, keep listening, keep learning, and keep making an impact.
Dr. Kirk Adams, Ph.D.
Advocate, Leader and Keynote Speaker on Disability Inclusion & Leadership
Leading the Way to Accessible Innovation
” Inclusion isn’t just the right thing to do — it’s a strategic advantage. “
Institute for Sustainable Diversity and Inclusion (ISDI)
Executive Director
Strengthening individual and organizational capability for creating diverse, inclusive and equitable workplaces.
Innovative Impact, LLC Consulting
Managing Director
Impactful Workforce Inclusion Starts Here
American Foundation for the Blind
Immediate Past President & CEO
To create a world of no limits for people who are blind or visually impaired.
Connect With Me:
🌍 Website: https://drkirkadams.com
📕 Book: https://drkirkadams.com/the-disability-dividend
📧 Email: kirkadams@drkirkadams.com
📞 Phone: +1 (206) 660-1363
📃 Dissertation: https://drkirkadams.com/dissertation
🎙️ Podcasts: https://drkirkadams.com/podcasts
🎙️ Apple Podcasts: https://drkirkadams.com/podcasts-apple
🎙️ Amazon Music: https://drkirkadams.com/podcasts-amazon
🎙️ Spotify: https://drkirkadams.com/podcasts-spotify
🎙️ iHeart Radio: https://drkirkadams.com/podcasts-iheart-radio
📧 Subscribe: https://drkirkadams.com/subscribe
💬 Facebook: https://drkirkadams.com/facebook
💬 LinkedIn (Individual): https://drkirkadams.com/linkedin
💬 LinkedIn (Company): https://drkirkadams.com/linkedinpage
💬 Mastodon: https://drkirkadams.com/mastodon
✏️ Medium: https://drkirkadams.com/medium
🛜 RSS: https://drkirkadams.com/feed
💬 X (Formerly Twitter): https://drkirkadams.com/x
📽️ YouTube: https://drkirkadams.com/youtube
📍 Address: 140 Lakeside Avenue, Suite A, Seattle, Washington 98122-6538